Un interview de Ratibor après sa libération.
des choses intéressantes sur la stratégie de défense future
http://www.novossti.com/2010/02/jednom- ... terorista/Once terrorist, always terrorist
"Belgrade six", charged for international terrorism are, when finally
after six months trial begun, on freedom. In waiting for return to
court on 24 march, they try to get back to into the rut of life as much
as it's possible after half year in prison. Some of them lost more then
20 kilos, some are not in quite good psychological condition. They can
send their letter of thanks to the state of Serbia.
Ratibor Trivunac, one of the charged anarchists and man who charge and
police reports mention as organisator of "terrorist group", speaks to
"Novosti" what's really behind all of this.
- I didnt planned any action. It's fabrication. Since there is small
number of anarchists in Serbia which are actively acting, I assumpted
that attention will turn toward us. They will arrest us and try to
frame something. For ie causing general danger, which is criminal act
and is dangerous by itself because if you do again any criminal act,
then you are returnee and you step into one dark flow within
juridisticial system. When we were arrested, police tried to force
confessions that we participated in attack on Greek embassy, which
most of us refused. They gave us document where it was written that
we're suspected for causing general danger, which I expected. I
counted that they will bring us to judge and than that we will chase
ourselves legally, to protest and prove that we have nothing with it.
We counted on 48h detention. While we were sitting in cells, they
inform us and we realise that we are charged for international
terrorism. In that moment whole thing become unbelievable and system
starts to grind you. I came into postion that everyone in prison pity
me. Thing is so stupid that there is no way to seriously defend your
thesis. You should only see explanations which say that we horribly
endangered property and lifes, while in charges itself it says that
we didnt make danger to anyone, which means that whole thing could be
characterized just as some offence, disturbing of public peace and
order. Page where explanation should be is, actually, empty.
* After release I get logorrhoea *
A lot of imagination is needed to fill that. Whole action was
constructed so it could be showed up as conspiracy, even as terrorist
act. What really happened?
- Although I didnt participated, I can arrange story only from the
charges and police report. In reports there is story that I
coordinated action, but they dont state nor it's explained what is
connection between me, and let say, Tadej Kurepa which was also
arrested. That's not stated. It says that, on one side, he contacted
people which met with me which resulted with attack on embassy, where
some people showed up which supposedly knew exclusively me. They
presented some hierarchical group which is in conflict with our
ideology and practice. There are some unbelievable confessions on
court which dont match with those given in police. They were forced
to confess, and especially girl which is only 19 years old and boy
which hardly suffer from epilepsy. It puts one disguisting dimension.
When you see police reports, it seems that I organized all of them,
same as the attack, and that they were reporting to me, after which I
said that action failed. It turns out that they were like some
sleeping terrorists which were activated by me. Complete grotesque.
Everything is full of bizzarity and contradictions.
Maybe it would be in that way if you not ended in prison for half of
year. How did you felt in that moments, helpless to change anything?
- Yes, it's most tragic thing. We didnt have rights to communicate with
others and that was hard for me. You cannot courage anyone. I have
need to write and say that everything would be OK, but impossibility
to do so was especially frustrating. It is like if soul would exist
soaring over body when man dies. You see what's going on, and you
cannot react in any way, you're completely helpless to direct
attention on anything in any way. That's why I get logorrhoea after I
get out of prison. I hardly waited to talk with someone. What
strengthened me through whole process was the fact that I was
permanently getting confirmation of our political thesis. We spoked
long ago that prisons are not institutions which prevent criminal,
but make people worst then they were before. No elements of
resocialisation, only reprisal of system which cannot get at the end
with people which for different reasons turned to criminal acts. That
is notorious fact. Everyone who entered there, came out as worse. I
completely lost sense of time. You shift yourself from real life so
much that I started to make plans about life in prison for next three
years, which is minimal punishment for act of international
terrorism. I was already thinking how it would be good, at least,
that they transfer us to zabela prison where they have block for
terrorists. There are two more people with you in cell, and you have
water, you can write. Everything was acceptable, just not to be
sentenced on 12 years...if it could only been three years. And then
you realize how much system grinds you and how you dont have contact
with reality.
*Only anarchism defends individual*
Before this case you were arrested for burning american flag during
visit of Joseph Biden to Belgrade. That act found sympathy even among
rightwingers and here we come on one schisophrenic ground where you
cannot see differece between your protest and the one when (usa)
embassy was burned. Milosevic's SPS and Tadic's DS are presenting
themselves as socialdemocrats, while Milorad Vučelić is considered as
balkan version of Che Guevara. Is there any way to present you work
like it really is, not how media and state present it?
- Of all parties people from SPS have even best understanding of
socialdemocracy. However, they are group of most tragic carrerist,
but they are more educated than cadres from other parties. When you
catch some waterpool player from DS, you cannot talk about democracy
with him because he doesnt know what that term means. I watched
Cvetkovic who talks that future is socially responsible state with
completely free market. It's crazy, but their position is explicit. I
read all newspapers while I was in prison. I had much time, so I read
also something that I never would. And then I see such stupidities as
for ie. that swimming race for Vidovdan cross, which is celebrated
also by municipalities in which supposedly socialdemocrats are on
power. How to make distinctions between our work, that something I
did wasnt because I'm chetnik or nationalist? That's impossible in
this moment. Simply, ideologies are reproducted through ideological
apparatus of state where media are important element. You can
function only through their contradictions and to fight for your
position that more people support you for something which they didnt
understood. They have relationship to something on irrational level,
and then to explain them on way which could be digested.
- Anarchism is ideology which is from one side most explicit and most
coherent in defence of individual rights of man. Nationalism force
relationship of unity and collectivism which is dialectically
percieved in anarchism as part of ideology. We have lot people from
liberal milleu who came to us, because we are only essentially
antinationalistic and essentially on positions for freedom of
individual. But every liberal will defend Zoran Djindjic, and when
you say that he is the man who poured ox with beer along with Radovan
Karadzic in city Pale, he will said that it was moment like that.
That's only nationalism in "smarter way", to fulfill "national aims".
There is talk about freedom, justice for people but under different
systems that rights are violated.
Irrational relationship surely comes from ignorance, and in that
situation production of fear is functioning perfectly. Banal example,
but you told me that you had also problem with renting the flat because
no one wants "international terrorist"?
- While I was walking down streets these days, there were no unpleasant
scenes. People come to me to shake hands, congratulate, greet with
fists in the air, but when it comes to practical level then problem
starts. No one wants to be involved in the case of international
terrorism. If it wasnt tragic, that would sound to me as good comedy.
You know how it look when they took you from cells block to the
lawyer? In that two minutes while you stand, you talk to other
prisoners. When I told them that I'm there for international
terrorism then they ask themselves what that means.
You recall probably 9/11?
- Yes, ideas are unbelievable. If it isnt tragic, it would be really
funny. Charges will fall. They will charge us probably for disturbing
public peace and order because for causing general danger there must
be concrete case with concrete endangered people and property. Here,
flame was put off by hand, there was no people and there is no case.
Will you ask for indemnification at the end?
- We will certinaly go to Strasbourg. Someone must pay to me and my
comrades because on streets they recognize us as international
terrorists. They'll have to pay us also because they connected our
organisation which have problem, in one hegemony of backward ideas,
to show that anarchism doesnt mean mindless violence. That are
political and personal problems. We will first hunt all judges which
participated in decisions of prolonging detention, all members of
court council, all cops and comandeers which behaved violently and
participated in physical and psychological repression, and then
people involved in prequalification of charges. There is official
record of police qualification that it is about causing general
danger. Directly on command of Slobodan Radovanović (republic
prosecutor) act was perqualified. I believe that at the end they will
charge us for something, I suppose it would be offence which means
two months in detention. We will ask indemnification for excess of
punishment, and we will also raise complaints on sentence. I dont
know how will I travel at all. When you wrote my name, on the
Internet it says that I'm international terrorist. I'm interested how
will I go to New York.
Well, how will you for start go out from Serbia.
- Yes. My life is marked with it. Everyone who knows me, know that I'm
man which work with books. Idea that I'm international terrorist is
ridiculous.
Relationship of system regarding you and rightwingers for which they
frequently have understanding is interesting. Frequently they put you
in the same box as two extremes, and we heard something similiar from
your lawyer Srđa Popović. Take for example killers of Brice Tatton
where they arrested those who did it, trial against guy which
participated in burning american embassy will start soon ...Examples
are numerous, but it wasnt discovered who gave orders.
- It's scareful. It's scareful when Boris Tadic shows up on TV and say:
"We will fight both left and right extremists". Then you ask yourself
is that man normal. We are not retards from nationalistic kind of
opposition. We know Boris Tadic, people around him. We know with who
Boris Tadic smoked marijuana, we know for who he keep guard while he
was tripping to be radical leftist and when he wanted to make Red
Brigades. We know what he did with his wife. He's not man which is
not conscious of those facts. Precisely because in his youth he was
in the same milleu, I believe it was one of the reasons of reprisal
against us. Ideologically Democratic party have bigger problem with
us then with unable rightwing oposition because we know better theory
and practice of socialdemocracy then socialdemocrats themselves.
How you see supposedly fight of state with rigthwing movements, be it
footbal fans or political?
- I dont think that state have legitimacy to ban Obraz, it was formed by
state. State can only disband them. Ban is direct lie. It's playing
with people which know who, when and in which way Obraz was formed.
There is completely identical situation in Germany. There they tried to
ban NDP because they are nazis. It turned out that whole leadership was
working for their secret service. They exist today as a party and are
pretty big. On the level of EU there is international of fascist
organisation which work for secret services of their states. They call
themselves European National Front, and NDP, Alessandra Musolini's
Forza Nuova, spanish Falange, and Obraz are members. State can only
disband it's fascists, not ban them because it was state who created
them.